So, some of you may have noticed Shayerahol's comment on my last blog, and he's right I didn't make a seperate post to continue my debate with him so that's entirely my fault. I'm doing so now because I realize that's really not appropriate to have on a post about Jessee. He and I have been engaging in a debate on Alexsander's blog, but I decided that it really shouldn't be there since Alex wasn't a part of the blog and it was getting increasingly less polite (though I was trying to be nice!) I invited him to e-mail me privately, feeling he might not want to publicly humiliate himself through this argument. He's decided e-mailing is only for friends (talk to one of my ex-boyfriends though, he'll tell you otherwise. :-P) and has decided to be public about this. That's fine.
He also mentioned that no one like me would ever be friends with him. I wonder if he means college students, sane people, gay people, young people, people in general, Caucasians, or people he's ever written anything to. All of the above, maybe?
So, to recap, I'm going to explain my side of this...Shayerahol is more than welcome to explain his side in his comment. Or on his blog...if he ever gets one. (Just an aside: most people have their own blog as a place to share their opinion with the world, rather than going and leaving dissenting opinions on everyone else's blogs? Think about it. It's an especially good idea for people with ridiculously strong and highly offensive convictions....not saying names...)
So he leaves some comments on Alexsander's post about L.A. Pride, calling Prides skankfests and so-on-and-so-forth. The first comment was deleted, which of course riles up Shayerahol and he starts on about Freedom of Speech...which doesn't apply to comments on personal blogs because of that little word "personal" that's thrown in there.
Anyways, because I'm nosey, among other flaws, I replied.
Realizing this was probably a mistake I said "I hate to feed the trolls but..." and, because as far as I can tell Shayerahol seeks out opportunities to claim he's being discriminated against, decided this meant I was calling him ugly by using the term troll.Now, I want you all to pause for a second and flip the common sense switch to "on" if it's not there already. Troll, on the internet, is a term meaning someone who is trying to start an argument. "Feed the trolls" has one meaning and one meaning only, anywhere, which is to reply to an Internet troll. I've provided links to prove that. But, having pointed this out to him, he accused me of backpedaling.
(And in case anyone's wondering, when I apologized for using the word troll which he correctly reasoned was fake was fake only because I was apologizing for something I did
n't do. How could it possibly have been real? I mean, I could have apologized for offending him, but, as you'll see...I think we're fairly even as far as that goes so I don't think an apology is necessary there.)Then he made an analogy of what if Isaiah Washington said he meant a "bundle of sticks used for kindling" when he said "faggot" -- I think he might have forgotten that that's where Isaiah Washington came into this, just because he seemed to think the two of us were being compared for our opinions of the word "faggot".
(On a totally unrelated note, I don't watch Grey's Anatomy, but I think Isaiah Washington might be right about getting fired for racist reasons, but I don't really know because I'm not actually paying attention because I don't watch Grey's.)
Which is another point of our debate, actually. He's arguing that the word is, in and of itself, offensive. Which is a valid argument, I understand the reasoning behind it, I just happen to disagree. I don't think a word can be offensive on its own, the intent behind it and any actions that come with it, that's where a word becomes offensive.
Looking for further ways to claim I'm discriminatory, he has latched onto the idea that the "Cracker" in my user name is an indication that I'm a white supremacist and that there is no way at all it could possibly be related to the fact that my name is Graham and I've been called Graham Cracker, quite literally, since the day I was born. I've explained this to him several times but to not avail. Apparently, I'm racist....against myself. (Which, for the record, Shayerahol, I have never in my life heard of anyone using the word "cracker", meaning white person, proudly.)Now, I have given him some room here. I admitted freely to being shallow -- which we all know is true. However, he seems convinced that because I think about whether or not someone is attractive, I use this to judge their character, talent, and worth and that I discriminate against ugly people. That's the furthest thing from the truth.
He looked on profile and picked out the gogo dancing -- which he's decided defines who I am -- and I admitted the job relies entirely on being pretty, and of course, manipulating people.
I admitted the job was immoral, and even said I didn't care all that much. He says this makes me amoral, and honestly he can think that if he'd like. Personally, I disagree...but then, I know me and he just judges me. Aside, how immoral is it when the people who are tipping are looking for that? I'm just giving them what they want. But that's neither here nor there.Of course, the mere fact that I am a gogo boy, even now that I have outlined all of the reaons I have for doing it (y'know, I'm a full-time student, I have a day job too, but $30,000 of medical bills and $32,000 yearly tuition, plus monthly rent now, and extracurricular activities, and I already have all the financial aid I can get...), makes me a villain. "Other college students can get by without doing it."
Uhm, no, most other college students can get by without doing it. If you're under the impression that I'm the only one, then can you explain to me why are there bumper stickers and t-shirts that say "I pole dance to pay my tuition"? Or maybe why there's books about college students who stripped to get through college? Or why no one at school is at all phased by this? Or why it's actually a pretty common night job for college students - gay and straight - to have?
Let me put it this way: unless mommy and daddy are rich, you are a full-time student with anywhere between one to four part-time jobs. One of those jobs is almost guaranteed to be a night job with tips and probably under-the-table pay.
So, his arguments have been that the gay community is shallow. I pointed out that that's actually like the whole rest of the world. He returned, basically, that we should be better than the rest of society, my question -- which has gone unanswered so far: if we seperate ourselves even more from the straight world, how are we supposed to be accepted in it?
Now, aside from his railing against the shallowness of the gay community, there's also his determination that Prides are entirely about how people look. I pointed out, going from my personal experience of Prides I've been to, three which do not fit his stereotype of a Pridefest. They are actually all of the Prides that I've been to. He replied that it was three out of zillions. Now, I have to assume that he expects me to believe he's been to zillions of Prides...which, oddly enough,
I don't so his argument is a little unconvincing. I mean, why would someone who hates Prides I do believe he's judging this based off of the pictures he happens to see...but, obviously, since he reads the blogs of young, hormonally active gay boys we're going to post our favorite photos -- which generally will have our friends and people we wish were our friends-with-benefits, y'know? Not at all different from the blogs of young, hormonally active straight boys who post photos of gorgeous women whenever they have an opportunity.Some comic relief from early in the debate, because I know some of you love comedy...I said, metaphorically, that every day was straight pride and he asked: "Do straight men behave like drugged up, drunken whores in public?" Now, I don't know how many of you have ever been out in public -- I'm assuming most of you, but it's a lot like hormones on parade. Especially at places where teenagers hang out -- malls, beaches, movie theaters, schools, coffee shops, bars, streets, CVS, parking lots....and I'm pretty sure those are not gay people. :-P
Our final point of contention is actually just a matter of opinion, so neither of us will win that argument. I happen to think Frenchie Davis needs hair. That's all I'm saying. I don't think she looks good without hair. I think she is amazingly talented.
I also think Sean van der Wilt is talented, though not as much as Frenchie. Apparently the fact that I like his music despite it's unoriginality is somehow offensive to Shayerahol. He seems to think he can't possibly be talented because a) no one's ever heard of him, and b) because he's white and pretty. Which kinda sounds like the racism and lookism Shayerahol accuses everyone else of. Hmmmm, funny about that.The good news is, we both agree that Angelina Jolie is only where she is because she's pretty. Then again, I think most people would agree with that. I'm sure Angelina would agree with that.
In closing, I'd just like to say another one-liner I read once, this time on a website full of famous quotes: "Beauty is only skin deep. What do you want, an adorable pancreas?"
(Brad, I KNOW I still owe you a Matt Damon post!! I was all set to do it, but I saw Shayerahol's comment and was like "Oh, I should do this..."
(DISCLAIMER: As usual, I stole most of the pictures from Google Image Search.)
11 comments:
I'm not sure I understand why you pay so much attention to this troll or even care what he thinks about you? I agree with all of your points. He obviously is a deluded individual and needs a reality check. Even I needed to work to pay my way through college. I would have stripped if there were such clubs where I went to school. The tips sure would have been better than in the chemistry department and the hours too. Has he never enjoyed a graham cracker? Get real!!!
Graham, I think some people just have way too much time on their hands. Why else pick an argument with you?
I hope you're having a great weekend.
graham i think you're hot...mainly because even tho we are usually equally hot, having a black eye and a swollen right side of my body lessens me a bit...so for a while, you are the hot one...dammit!
HAHAHA, Johnna...if that's how you feel right now, I think you should fall off four-wheelers more often. :P No, I'm totally kidding, please don't ever do that again.
How you choose to support your needs is your own business & anyone who uses that to judge you is nothing but shallow...Obviously too shallow to realise the nice nature behind the glitz & glamour of gogo dancing...Don't even waste your time answering his claims babe...I do agree that debate has a time & a place & no one has the right to defame, abuse or use prejudice against anyone...
Maybe the better solution is to let it go & move on before it gets beyond reach.
Dont wait around for an apology, it will never happen.
hugs babe
xoxo
"...but ugly goes clear to the bone." I read that once, in a book called Garfield's Book of Put-Downs, Insults, and Slams..."
So now you own up to calling me ugly. Finally! At least you are now honest with yourself.
"He and I have been engaging in a debate on Alexsander's blog, but I decided that it really shouldn't be there since Alex wasn't a part of the blog and it was getting increasingly less polite (though I was trying to be nice!)"
You were trying to be nice? hee hee. if that is your defintion of nice, then you need a dictionary. as for not wanting it on alexsander's blog, its now oh so apparent why you wanted it on this blog. it's so you can have your cheerleader hags come to your defense, prop you up and praise you. it's because you need your posse of hairy back marys to come to your defense and have the gorilla call me a "fucktard." nice vocabulary range there. such a scintillating gem of wit. you can't fight your battles on your own. You can't fight on neutral ground. you have to debate here so you can elicit people to defend you. pathetic. but it's typical of a weakling to need others to come to his defense.
"I invited him to e-mail me privately, feeling he might not want to publicly humiliate himself through this argument."
The only one humiliating themselves is you. actually you humiliate yourself everyday in you job. You humiliate yourself by swinging around naked, spreading your itchy bits in the air. All for community college right. Cue the violin strings erin brokobitch.
"I wonder if he means college students, sane people, gay people, young people, people in general, Caucasians, or people he's ever written anything to. All of the above, maybe?"
Nope. Just someone who calls people ugly and says using faggot is ok.
"Which is another point of our debate, actually. He's arguing that the word is, in and of itself, offensive."
I hope some homophobe calls you a faggot. If you ever get a bf, I hope someone calls him a faggot and it hurts him. Maybe then you'll realize how offensive it is.
"I don't think a word can be offensive on its own, the intent behind it and any actions that come with it, that's where a word becomes offensive."
So the n-word is not offensive at all? You just need to rake a person over coals to be considered offensive. Calling someone a gook isn't offensive at all? You just need to bash an Asian's head to be considered offensive. Calling someone a cracker? Oops you call yourself that, so scratch that last question.
"He looked on profile and picked out the gogo dancing -- which he's decided defines who I am"
A person's profession/job does not define him/her as a whole. But it is a big part of who you are, what your identity is and how you define yourself.
" -- and I admitted the job relies entirely on being pretty, and of course, manipulating people."
And yet you claim to want to change the status quo of "beauty" (as defined by the current gay standards) which you directly/monetarily benefit from.
"I admitted the job was immoral, and even said I didn't care all that much."
All that much? You didn't care at all. You stated that in alexsander's blog, which you retreated from since you need to be on uneven ground. We're now on your turf. You have "home court advantage" since you can't hold your own in a neutral blog. It's neutral since alexsander can't write anything. Does he even have a brain? All he says are "boys, boys, boys".
"how immoral is it when the people who are tipping are looking for that? I'm just giving them what they want."
Typical to shift the "blame" to your customers.
"Of course, the mere fact that I am a gogo boy, even now that I have outlined all of the reaons I have for doing it (y'know, I'm a full-time student, I have a day job too, but $30,000 of medical bills and $32,000 yearly tuition, plus monthly rent now, and extracurricular activities, and I already have all the financial aid I can get...), makes me a villain."
villain? You are again painting yourself as the victim. Poor poor gogo boy shaking his bony ass for college bills. Poor poor gogo boy being picked on, so he has to run to his hags. Poor poor gogo boy being demonized and being called a villain.
"If you're under the impression that I'm the only one, then can you explain to me why are there bumper stickers and t-shirts that say "I pole dance to pay my tuition"?
LOL! bumper sticker wisdom! hee hee that's funny. When I was in college, and I graduated in 2003, none of my friends had to resort to stripping their clothes (and more importantly their dignity) to pay for college.
"So, his arguments have been that the gay community is shallow. I pointed out that that's actually like the whole rest of the world."
Maybe your world, which is your insulated bubble full of hags to come to your defense. But if you think the whole rest of the world is like that you can either adhere to those standards (which you do) or rail against them (which I do).
"He returned, basically, that we should be better than the rest of society, my question -- which has gone unanswered so far: if we seperate ourselves even more from the straight world, how are we supposed to be accepted in it?"
This is exactly why you are so hypocritical and contradictory. No amount of explaining gets through your insulated bubble. No amount of explaining about the queer society, the pride/skankfests etc. puts a dent in your brain.
".....malls, beaches, movie theaters, schools, coffee shops, bars, streets, CVS, parking lots....and I'm pretty sure those are not gay people. :-P"
People hang out at CVS? This is comic relief!
"Our final point of contention is actually just a matter of opinion, so neither of us will win that argument. I happen to think Frenchie Davis needs hair. That's all I'm saying. I don't think she looks good without hair. I think she is amazingly talented.
I also think Sean van der Wilt is talented, though not as much as Frenchie. Apparently the fact that I like his music despite it's unoriginality is somehow offensive to Shayerahol. He seems to think he can't possibly be talented because a) no one's ever heard of him, and b) because he's white and pretty."
I never said that. I said he's just a typical, pretty white guy with prepackaged music and a voice that is untalented. I said his voice sucks. He sucks, but he's probably used to sucking. ;)
Now I'm going to include this about him: he only has his music "career" because of racism and lookism. He's a white, pretty boy so this automatically means he should be able to be profitable since he appeals to the shallow crowd. You are such an advocate of sean whatshisname because you two are kindred spirits. Sean whatshisface is only relying on his looks to get by as a singer. You are relying on your looks to get by gogo dancing. You are both benefiting from the racist, lookist, ageist, weightist standards of the gay community.
"In closing, I'd just like to say another one-liner I read once, this time on a website full of famous quotes: "Beauty is only skin deep. What do you want, an adorable pancreas?"
In closing, I'd just like to say these:
1. I expect your hags to hurl one invective after the next at me since you can't stand on your own to defend your actions.
2. Beauty isn't forever.
Shayera
"So now you own up to calling me ugly. Finally! At least you are now honest with yourself."
I still don't know what you look like, but your personality could use a make over. And not the kind you can get from Maybeline. Just sayin'.
"You were trying to be nice? hee hee. if that is your defintion of nice, then you need a dictionary."
Oh, you really want to see what I'm like when I'm not nice, do you?
"as for not wanting it on alexsander's blog, its now oh so apparent why you wanted it on this blog. it's so you can have your cheerleader hags come to your defense, prop you up and praise you. it's because you need your posse of hairy back marys to come to your defense and have the gorilla call me a "fucktard." nice vocabulary range there. such a scintillating gem of wit. you can't fight your battles on your own. You can't fight on neutral ground. you have to debate here so you can elicit people to defend you. pathetic. but it's typical of a weakling to need others to come to his defense."
Yes, and that's aslo exactly why I also offered that you could e-mail me so it wouldn't be public. Do you ever think anything through, or do you just sort of talk?
Also, way to call of my friends ugly women. And, no, there's really no other definition of "hag", so don't pretend you didn't. But, no, you're not lookist at all. You are getting more laughable and more desperate every time you try to argue with me. Can't you get a real hobby, like, oh I dunno, group therapy?
"The only one humiliating themselves is you. actually you humiliate yourself everyday in you job. You humiliate yourself by swinging around naked, spreading your itchy bits in the air. All for community college right. Cue the violin strings erin brokobitch."
Funny, none of my bits itch. As for whether or not dancing is humiliating, it may not be my proudest moment...but at least nobody accuses me of having too much time on my hands or needing a reality check (except, of course, for you. But do you count? Not so much.)
"Nope. Just someone who calls people ugly and says using faggot is ok."
You call people ugly. Do you hate yourself too?
"I hope some homophobe calls you a faggot. If you ever get a bf, I hope someone calls him a faggot and it hurts him. Maybe then you'll realize how offensive it is."
Are you seriously so deluded you think that I have never been called faggot? Do you think I've never had anyone I cared about get hurt by homophobia? That's the most ludicrous thing I've heard from you yet.
Unlike you, however, I actually understand what is damaging about being called a faggot and like I've said before it's the intent and/or the actions that come with the word.
"So the n-word is not offensive at all? You just need to rake a person over coals to be considered offensive. Calling someone a gook isn't offensive at all? You just need to bash an Asian's head to be considered offensive. Calling someone a cracker? Oops you call yourself that, so scratch that last question."
Oh, I love queers when they're melodramatic. I don't think that really requires a response, since you missed the whole "intent" bit which was kind of important.
You really don't understand the concept of a "pun" do you? Here's a clue.
"A person's profession/job does not define him/her as a whole. But it is a big part of who you are, what your identity is and how you define yourself."
It really doesn't have anything to do with how I define myself. I'm the same as I was before I started dancing, albeit with less of a sex drive. The only reason it is even in my profile on Blogger is because it's something I write about on here. But you, you do define me that way which just exposes your own hypocrisy.
"And yet you claim to want to change the status quo of "beauty" (as defined by the current gay standards) which you directly/monetarily benefit from."
Of course I do. If I was even closer to the ideal, I would make more money. I'd get more jobs as an actor too. I explained that to you already.
"All that much? You didn't care at all. You stated that in alexsander's blog, which you retreated from since you need to be on uneven ground. We're now on your turf. You have "home court advantage" since you can't hold your own in a neutral blog."
You want that e-mail address again? You seem distressed by the commenting thing. There's a reason why I gave it to you -- so we would still be in a neutral territory.
"It's neutral since alexsander can't write anything. Does he even have a brain? All he says are "boys, boys, boys"."
And yet you read his blog. Maybe you enjoy looking at "boys, boys, boys"? For those of us who actually *do* read his blog, he often has interesting stories to tell. At least, stories I find interesting.
"Typical to shift the "blame" to your customers."
It's not blame, I was asking a philosophical question. There's no blame to be had in the whole situation.
"villain? You are again painting yourself as the victim. Poor poor gogo boy shaking his bony ass for college bills. Poor poor gogo boy being picked on, so he has to run to his hags. Poor poor gogo boy being demonized and being called a villain."
Okay, do you need the list of bills again? It's more than college. Maybe you could pick up literacy as your new hobby! The first step, you could capitalize on a regular basis according to the rules of the English language. Just throwing it out there, take it or leave it.
Anyways, you just again proved my point about how hung up on my dancing you are. Which, again, proves you're a hypocrite. I appreciate the fact that you stand for all these moral things, but until you can not just argue about them by practice them, you might as well give it up.
"LOL! bumper sticker wisdom! hee hee that's funny. When I was in college, and I graduated in 2003, none of my friends had to resort to stripping their clothes (and more importantly their dignity) to pay for college."
Well, community college is less expensive.
Bumper sticker wisdom may not be wise (not that you would recognize wisdom if it was beating you in the face with a shovel), but things only appear on bumper stickers that large numbers of people can relate to.
Could it be the reason none of your friends go go danced or stripped was because a) they never told you they were because they knew you'd hate them, b) there were no clubs to do so in the area, or c) because birds of a feather flock together and they're all as dead set against that sort of thing as you? Or maybe all of you had rich mommies and daddies?
"Maybe your world, which is your insulated bubble full of hags to come to your defense. But if you think the whole rest of the world is like that you can either adhere to those standards (which you do) or rail against them (which I do)."
There is nothing insulated about my world, I guarantee that. And, ps, if my "hags" are coming to my defense, why am I the first one replying to your comment? And why did I give you my e-mail address?
As for railing against those standards, the trick is to abide by the standards you set for the rest of the world. You clearly have no talent for that.
"This is exactly why you are so hypocritical and contradictory. No amount of explaining gets through your insulated bubble. No amount of explaining about the queer society, the pride/skankfests etc. puts a dent in your brain."
And still you don't answer the question in bold. Could it be because there isn't an answer that fits in with your jaded and delusional view of the world?
"People hang out at CVS? This is comic relief!"
I grew up in a small town, and I kid you not, the 24-hour CVS was the hottest place to be on a Saturday night.
"I never said that. I said he's just a typical, pretty white guy with prepackaged music and a voice that is untalented. I said his voice sucks. He sucks, but he's probably used to sucking. ;)"
You said his music was crap. I quote, from Alex's blog: "His myspace sucks. His "music" sucks. His "music" (if you can call it that) is the same, prepackaged, unimaginative crap. He sucks." Or earlier, before you even listened to him: " Going out for that Grand Prix of Backpedaling now, are we?
"Now I'm going to include this about him: he only has his music "career" because of racism and lookism. He's a white, pretty boy so this automatically means he should be able to be profitable since he appeals to the shallow crowd. You are such an advocate of sean whatshisname because you two are kindred spirits. Sean whatshisface is only relying on his looks to get by as a singer. You are relying on your looks to get by gogo dancing. You are both benefiting from the racist, lookist, ageist, weightist standards of the gay community."
I didn't advocate him. I said he got cut despite being prettier than Frenchie (which, as I explained, I said because I don't like her hair) but he's not as talented. You're stuck on this idea. I like his stuff, yes, but I never said he was as good as Frenchie, I never advocated him, I never said he should have gone on instead of Frenchie, in fact I haven't advocated for him at all. You really didn't get your money's worth out of that college you went to, unless you majored in "Being a Pretentious Asshole without Social Skills". What was it, a half-year college?
"1. I expect your hags to hurl one invective after the next at me since you can't stand on your own to defend your actions."
Huh, they didn't do anything and I still think I'm defending myself pretty well.
"2. Beauty isn't forever."
But thank God for plastic surgery (:P)...not to mention my intelligence, literacy, and talent as an actor. Too bad you don't have either of those first two to fall back on. Actually, are you good at anything?
"I still don't know what you look like, but your personality could use a make over. And not the kind you can get from Maybeline. Just sayin'."
maybeline? uggh, shallow and cheap. first you admit to calling me ugly in alexsander the half-wit's blog and now in your own blog (through a Garfield put-down nonetheless, hee hee). and now you deny it. Once the backpedaler, always the backpedaler.
"Yes, and that's aslo exactly why I also offered that you could e-mail me so it wouldn't be public."
I don't want your bile cluttering my inbox. the debate was perfectly fine in alexsander's blog since he doesn't contribute anything. why? since he's an idiot who doesn't even know how to write (and most likely speak) fluently. he's an idiotic horndog. the playing field was leveled there, but we had to debate here since you need your female and male hags to call me "fucktard," "troll," "delusional" etc. you need your hags to encourage your behavior and offer "hugs and kisses" (barf!) since you are being confronted. poor poor you. You need the hairy back marys who are all enablers of your behavior.
"Also, way to call of my friends ugly women. And, no, there's really no other definition of "hag", so don't pretend you didn't."
I have been called ugly by you and your group of cheerleader hags. So it's time to fight fire with fire.
"as for whether or not dancing is humiliating, it may not be my proudest moment..."
Now that has got to be the understatement of the century! Hee hee!
"but at least nobody accuses me of having too much time on my hands or needing a reality check"
you put a blog for comments. don't expect everyone to be as delusional as your panel of hags. don't expect everyone to be enablers, supporting your behavior. don't expect to have a group of "yes" people.
"You call people ugly. Do you hate yourself too?"
first you call me ugly. then you deny calling me ugly. now you again admit to calling me ugly. Schizophrenic much?
"Unlike you, however, I actually understand what is damaging about being called a faggot and like I've said before it's the intent and/or the actions that come with the word."
You actually don't get hurt by being called a faggot? They need to perform an autopsy on you since you're dead inside.
"Oh, I love queers when they're melodramatic. I don't think that really requires a response"
Of course not. You could never respond to the question "Is saying the n-word, gook, etc. offensive?" Yes it is. Then it would damage/destroy your little "theory" of faggot being okay, but actions being offensive.
"You really don't understand the concept of a "pun" do you?"
There is no pun in calling a black person the n-word. There is no pun in calling an Asian person a gook. There is no pun in calling someone a faggot. And you still cannot answer my question since you are a coward. Either that or you don't find any offense in the n-word or gook as well. It's a plausible explanation since you don't find the word faggot offensive and you don't find the word cracker offensive.
"It really doesn't have anything to do with how I define myself."
Right.........
"I'm the same as I was before I started dancing, albeit with less of a sex drive."
The same? Or worse?
"The only reason it is even in my profile on Blogger is because it's something I write about on here. But you, you do define me that way which just exposes your own hypocrisy."
you're the hypocrite. you've been the hypocrite since this debate began, backpedaling your way all the way back to your own blog.
"Of course I do. If I was even closer to the ideal, I would make more money."
I'm glad you admit that you want the status quo to remain. You admit that you make money thanks to the prevailing notions of beauty. But now you admit to being even greedy! This greed (derived from benefiting from the status quo) directly keeps others unrepresented, subjugated and subjected to these horrible, prevailing definitions of beauty.
"I'd get more jobs as an actor too."
oh so now you're an actor? well you do love to be melodramatic about your "struggles" as a gogo boy Erin Brokobiotch. have fun at the dante's cove audition. that show, with its cast primarily full of white people (big surprise) is so cringeworthy. talk about talentless hacks. it's such a tacky, trashy skanky soap opera for gays. so you'd fit right in.
"You want that e-mail address again?"
Not in a million years.
"You seem distressed by the commenting thing."
Why would I be distressed by your hags on this blog? It's very typical for an oppresive bully like yourself to run to his hag homos to defend him. You couldn't stand on your own 2 feet in the debate at braindead alexsander's blog, so you had to lure me here so your hags could pounce and attack for you.
"And yet you read his blog."
I began complaining in his blog because all he does is glorify these prevailing, oppresive notions of beauty. It reached a boling point when he put pictures of the skanfests, since those events are the culmination of all that is trashy, slutty, oppresive, ageist, weightist, sexist, lookist and racist in the queer community. I was trying to engage him in a debate, but he clearly is not equipped for one. Then you jumped in and engaged in a debate. You began by calling me ugly. Calling me ugly also continues in this debate courtesy of you and your hags.
"For those of us who actually *do* read his blog, he often has interesting stories to tell. At least, stories I find interesting."
You find alexsander's crappy stories interesting? Shocker!
"It's not blame, I was asking a philosophical question."
Hee hee. First bumper sticker wisdom. Now the philosophy of gogo boys. You really keep outdoing yourself!
"Okay, do you need the list of bills again? It's more than college."
So now you are not accusing me of calling you a villain. So what part are you playing now gogo boy/actor? The part of the (sym)pathetic heroine?
"Anyways, you just again proved my point about how hung up on my dancing you are."
It sounds like you are the one hung up on your own dancing.
"Which, again, proves you're a hypocrite. I appreciate the fact that you stand for all these moral things, but until you can not just argue about them by practice them, you might as well give it up."
You're the hypocrite. Your hypocrisy is littered throughout this debate. From your flawed opinions on slurs to your flawed logic with the notions of queer "beauty" you have proven your hypocrisy time and time agian. You're telling me to give up on this debate? In the words of the uber talented, uber beautiful, uber phenomenal Jennifer Hudson "And I'm telling you..... no no no no way!" You already have home court advantage and your group of blogger hags to call me ugly. And yet you're telling me to give up this debate? Pathetic.
"Well, community college is less expensive."
I did not attend community college, just to clarify. Not that there's anything wrong with a community college. I graduated from a university in 5 years.
"but things only appear on bumper stickers that large numbers of people can relate to."
Again, the majority rules concept is something you always rely on and turn to. You think "Hey let me bring the debate to my own blog since everyone will support my flawed logic there. Majority will rule and we can all hurl insults at Shayera." You think "Hey these gay standards of beauty are supported by the majority (majority being white) so let's maintain the status quo and quell those that rail against it." That's your train of thought.
"There is nothing insulated about my world, I guarantee that. "And, ps, if my "hags" are coming to my defense, why am I the first one replying to your comment?"
hee hee. I guess you didn't read all the previous responses in the other blog combined with their responses in this blog! you are the delusional Empress of the Grand Prix of Backpedaling.
"You clearly have no talent for that."
you can keep your notion of talent. besides you consider sean himbo talented and you consider swinging in the air butt nekkid as a talent. so your basis of talent is very shallow anyway.
"And still you don't answer the question in bold."
The queer community does not need to adhere to the straight community. It can stand on its own 2 feet and carve its won path. But clearly you don't believe in that since 1. you want the lookist, ageist, weightist, racist ideals of the queer community to prevail and continue and 2. you don't believe in carving your won path since you retreated to this blog for your hags to defend you.
"You said his music was crap."
Yup sean the himbo's (himbo is a male bimbo) music is crap. Listening to it on his myspace is like listening to a bad American Idol audition. His music is as ghastly as his blonde hair with roots showing and his orange, spray tan.
"Huh, they didn't do anything and I still think I'm defending myself pretty well."
hee hee. so first you elicit their defenses through what you wrote. and then they come to your defense, but you claim they didn't. you've got the manipulative gogo boy role down, so you can use it in your auditions for a part. hey if it doesn't work out, there's always the casting couch. and we all know what happens there. it's not who you know, it's who you blow right? :)
"But thank God for plastic surgery"
That is what talentless "actors" rely on. When they're old and washed up, it's time to go under the knife. Not naming names here.
"As for railing against those standards, the trick is to abide by the standards you set for the rest of the world."
Well you would know about pulling tricks. But no, this whole debate began with the fact that the gay community upholds these oppresive notions of beauty. The gay community is racist, lookist, weightist and ageist. And I am going to speak against this!
Shayerahol
"maybeline? uggh, shallow and cheap. first you admit to calling me ugly in alexsander the half-wit's blog and now in your own blog (through a Garfield put-down nonetheless, hee hee). and now you deny it. Once the backpedaler, always the backpedaler."
I never admitted to calling you ugly in Alexsander's blog. Mostly because I didn't. The "clear to the bone" bit obviously refers to your personality. Common sense decrees that. But you don't have any, so I'm not sure why I expected you to understand that. I'm sorry if I wounded your pride. I'm also going to point out the old adage "Pride cometh before the fall."
"I don't want your bile cluttering my inbox. the debate was perfectly fine in alexsander's blog since he doesn't contribute anything. why? since he's an idiot who doesn't even know how to write (and most likely speak) fluently. he's an idiotic horndog. the playing field was leveled there, but we had to debate here since you need your female and male hags to call me "fucktard," "troll," "delusional" etc. you need your hags to encourage your behavior and offer "hugs and kisses" (barf!) since you are being confronted. poor poor you. You need the hairy back marys who are all enablers of your behavior."
Y'know, I'm beginning to agree with all of my "hags". You don't have the slightest amount of respect for anyone, whether they've wronged you or not. It is not respectful to Alexsander to have a debate this heated in his blog. So I offered you a choice -- my blog, so as to not invade anyone else's space, or over e-mail. We could have done it in your blog if you had the balls to have one.
Also, for those of us fluent in the English language, "hags" are always female. So about that fluency comment you made about Alexsander? Are you the pot or the kettle calling the other black?
"Hugs and kisses" is too mushy for you? Either you've never had good friends, or you're five. I'm gonna throw in a vote for "both".
Also, most of the people who read this, I've never met. They are not enabling any behavior or influencing me at all. (No offense guys. :P)
Anyways, your lack of respect makes you possibly the most utterly worthless person on the planet. See, the thing is, I did have respect for you up until this point. You were a man with a mission, out to change the world for the better.
Now you're just a worm with the Internet.
"I have been called ugly by you and your group of cheerleader hags. So it's time to fight fire with fire."
I called your personality ugly. As for Johnna calling you ugly, well Johnna's kind of volatile (I love her to pieces though, she's a great friend, pulls through when you need her) (and sometimes when you don't :P) and she says things like that. Then she said "I apologize for adding to the ugly" which is her way of saying "Sorry I was a bitch". Keep in mind that she posted that while sitting at home recovering from falling off a four-wheeler and landing on, from my understanding of it, her face so she's not exactly at her prettiest.
So far you've thrown around a word meaning "ugly" -- and definitely meaning in the looks department, more than anyone. So, golly, why would I ever think that's hypocritical of someone who hates lookism so much?
"Now that has got to be the understatement of the century! Hee hee!"
Actually, no, that's pretty much right on par with reality. I'm not proud of it, but I'm not ashamed or humiliated either.
"you put a blog for comments. don't expect everyone to be as delusional as your panel of hags. don't expect everyone to be enablers, supporting your behavior. don't expect to have a group of "yes" people."
Of course I don't, but I expect anyone who is going to have opinions about the things I have opinions about and who is going to share those opinions to have a place where I can just as equally expose their readers to my ideas and opinions. Besides, having a blog of your own will give you a much better shot of "changing the status quo" because people will stumble upon it, and read it, and because you won't be on someone else's site wasting your time arguing via personal attacks you won't look like a psychotic mess and they might even listen to you.
"first you call me ugly. then you deny calling me ugly. now you again admit to calling me ugly. Schizophrenic much?"
I didn't admit to it. You referred to "people" who call people ugly, which you do. Unless you know of a non-English meaning for the word "hag" which means something new and different?
"You actually don't get hurt by being called a faggot? They need to perform an autopsy on you since you're dead inside."
I'm dead inside? I'm not the one traveling across the Internet and leaving personal attacks on people's personal blogs in my misguided attempt to change the world and better the queer community.
And if someone says "faggot" and means it in a hurtful way, then I get offended. If someone just says "faggot" and doesn't mean to be offend me, why should I be offended?
"Of course not. You could never respond to the question "Is saying the n-word, gook, etc. offensive?" Yes it is. Then it would damage/destroy your little "theory" of faggot being okay, but actions being offensive."
The intent behind the word is what's offensive. You know the meaning of the word "intent", yes?
"There is no pun in calling a black person the n-word. There is no pun in calling an Asian person a gook. There is no pun in calling someone a faggot. And you still cannot answer my question since you are a coward. Either that or you don't find any offense in the n-word or gook as well. It's a plausible explanation since you don't find the word faggot offensive and you don't find the word cracker offensive."
Okay, was the doctor who delivered me being offensive when he called me a "Graham Cracker" as he signed my birth certificate? (That's a favorite family story.) Should I go sue him? What about every person who has ever called me "Graham Cracker"? Should I sue for harrassment? Accuse them of being racist? Every person I meet who has the sense of humor (however lame) to call my Graham Cracker is secretly a racist? Is that what you're saying?
And that also somehow explains how intent is not important in making a word offensive? I'm just not sure I understand why the word "faggot" is offensive when someone intends it to mean a bundle of kindling or doesn't intend to be insulting about it. The N-word is not offensive when a black person says it to another because the intent is different.
"It really doesn't have anything to do with how I define myself."
"Right........."
How you define me and how I define myself are two entirely separate things, seeing as you how are...well, entirely not important.
"The same? Or worse?"
What part of "dancing has not changed me" got past your limited understanding of the English language?
"you're the hypocrite. you've been the hypocrite since this debate began, backpedaling your way all the way back to your own blog."
Except for, you know, how I haven't changed anything I've said from the beginning of the debate or contradicted myself even slightly.
"I'm glad you admit that you want the status quo to remain. You admit that you make money thanks to the prevailing notions of beauty. But now you admit to being even greedy! This greed (derived from benefiting from the status quo) directly keeps others unrepresented, subjugated and subjected to these horrible, prevailing definitions of beauty."
I think I said "if I was closer to the ideal" which implies that either I need to change (which I won't) or I want the status quo to change. Which I've said.
I said I'd make more money if the prevailing notions of beauty changed. In fact, I'd start making so much money from acting, I could give up dancing, school (since I'm a theater major), and my day job. Then all I'd have to pay for would be rent, medical bills, and household bills. Since being that successful of an actor would be a dream come true for me, that would pretty much be perfect. And since I would be seeking a dream just as much, if not more, than money from that, would you call me any greedier than anyone else?
"oh so now you're an actor? well you do love to be melodramatic about your "struggles" as a gogo boy Erin Brokobiotch. have fun at the dante's cove audition. that show, with its cast primarily full of white people (big surprise) is so cringeworthy. talk about talentless hacks. it's such a tacky, trashy skanky soap opera for gays. so you'd fit right in."
Funny, you read through my profile enough to pick out the "go go dancer" bit but you didn't pick up on the "actor" bit? Gosh, we're only slightly obsessed with the dancing, are we?
As for your comments about my talent, it's funny. Most people with no talent don't major in the art, haven't been doing it since they were seven, and certainly aren't on the call list for three casting companies. (Course with the Internet, it could be more than that.)
I really haven't been melodramatic about my trials as a go go dancer. I've barely talked about my experiences doing the job at all. I did talk, very briefly, about why I have $30,000 in medical bills, but if I was being melodramatic I would have spent much more time on it. You must live around some really dull people if you think I'm being melodramatic. I think that explains your lack of exposure to anything except your uncle's bigotry.
"Not in a million years."
Of course not.
"Why would I be distressed by your hags on this blog? It's very typical for an oppresive bully like yourself to run to his hag homos to defend him. You couldn't stand on your own 2 feet in the debate at braindead alexsander's blog, so you had to lure me here so your hags could pounce and attack for you."
Yes, that was my plan all along. Because if you e-mailed me I was going to....wait, follow that thought for me? There is no way I would have given you my e-mail address if that was the plan. Could you just once think before you type? I'd be able to die happy if I knew you had at least two brain cells to rub together.
"I began complaining in his blog because all he does is glorify these prevailing, oppresive notions of beauty. It reached a boling point when he put pictures of the skanfests, since those events are the culmination of all that is trashy, slutty, oppresive, ageist, weightist, sexist, lookist and racist in the queer community. I was trying to engage him in a debate, but he clearly is not equipped for one. Then you jumped in and engaged in a debate. You began by calling me ugly. Calling me ugly also continues in this debate courtesy of you and your hags."
Because not reading, like a mature individual, would have been too difficult? Instead you had to start complaining? That's is almost word for word the definition of an Internet troll -- which you deny being slang that I would possibly use. Why would I ever use a slang word that describes you perfectly? Gosh, it's just impossible to figure that one out.
As for who's calling who ugly, I accused you of starting trouble on his blog by calling you a troll, I did *not* accuse you of being ugly. I did say it in this blog, though it was pretty clearly a reference to your personality (unless you thought I was calling your bones ugly?) You're the one who insists on calling everyone who comments on my blog ugly old women -- and you are *not* referring to their personality, not with the word "hag" being used.
"You find alexsander's crappy stories interesting? Shocker!"
They're interesting because I like to learn about people, and in the stories he shares about his social life it's a window into his little social circle's world. People who are interested/give a damn about people enjoy that kind of thing. Clearly, you are an exception on both counts.
"Hee hee. First bumper sticker wisdom. Now the philosophy of gogo boys. You really keep outdoing yourself!"
That was actually the philosophy of the younger brother of a Philosophy/English major. See, I'm multi-faceted. If you weren't hung up on my dancing, that would have occurred to you. One more piece of evidence pointing to your mild obsession. And by "mild" I mean "seek medication immediately".
"So now you are not accusing me of calling you a villain. So what part are you playing now gogo boy/actor? The part of the (sym)pathetic heroine?"
No, I'm still accusing you of villainizing me. That's your whole tactic. And I do mean your WHOLE tactic. The complete entirety of your arguments depends upon me despicable. You should've done debate club in school, Shayera. That never wins an argument.
"It sounds like you are the one hung up on your own dancing."
Except for how you're the one who brought it up in the first place and continues to bring it up, and I never mentioned it until you did. Other than those simple facts, yes, I can see how it would be misconstrued that I'm the one with the obsession.
"You're the hypocrite. Your hypocrisy is littered throughout this debate. From your flawed opinions on slurs to your flawed logic with the notions of queer "beauty" you have proven your hypocrisy time and time agian."
I really haven't. "Flawed logic" is, a) in the eye of the beholder. And b) I'm standing by my flawed logic. You are standing by it in your main points, but in your attempts to undermine my character you've let go of it completely. Since hypocrisy is not practicing what you preach, and you clearly do not practice what you preach, that makes you a hypocrite. Flaws just make me human.
"You're telling me to give up on this debate? In the words of the uber talented, uber beautiful, uber phenomenal Jennifer Hudson "And I'm telling you..... no no no no way!" You already have home court advantage and your group of blogger hags to call me ugly. And yet you're telling me to give up this debate? Pathetic."
I'm advising you, not telling you, since you chose to do this the public way, that you're going to want to give up this debate. Either that or change your nickname for further online activities. And, ps, not to threaten you or anything but you do know I have your IP Address right? Should I ever decide to find out who you are, it wouldn't be hard. Another reason why e-mail might've been a smarter route for you. But smart has never been your thing, has it?
"I did not attend community college, just to clarify. Not that there's anything wrong with a community college. I graduated from a university in 5 years."
Five? You stayed on an extra year. Now I understand.
(Just for the record, I agree that nothing is wrong with community college, I just feel like you should always follow it up with further education if you attend one.)
"Again, the majority rules concept is something you always rely on and turn to. You think "Hey let me bring the debate to my own blog since everyone will support my flawed logic there. Majority will rule and we can all hurl insults at Shayera." You think "Hey these gay standards of beauty are supported by the majority (majority being white) so let's maintain the status quo and quell those that rail against it." That's your train of thought."
No, I rely on myself and, gosh, reality. The latter of which you seem to have forgotten existed. I think "hey, I will get this off of Alexsander's blog because he clearly doesn't want us fighting there so I will provide two options to Bitchrahol and he can choose how to finish this debate". Let's be honest, you didn't turn down e-mailing me because we aren't friends -- you turned it down so you could pretend I need the support of my readers and you could continue holding on to this hallucination that you're arguing with a naive and weak little twink. I am none of the above, and it's time you stopped listening to the voices in your head and realized that.
And how many times do I need to express to you my desire to change the status quo before it's in words you can understand? I would like there to *be* a status quo, yes, but since skinny isn't part of the current status quo I sincerely want it to change.
More to the point, at least I have a train of thought. This puts me at least a hundred steps ahead of you in the "logic" department.
"hee hee. I guess you didn't read all the previous responses in the other blog combined with their responses in this blog! you are the delusional Empress of the Grand Prix of Backpedaling."
I did read all the other responses. But you posted the comment I was replying to two days ago, and not one person decided to leap to my defense. Know why? Because I don't need or want them to. Again, if I needed or wanted their help I would not have offered you my e-mail address.
"you can keep your notion of talent. besides you consider sean himbo talented and you consider swinging in the air butt nekkid as a talent. so your basis of talent is very shallow anyway."
I don't consider dancing naked a talent. I said acting talent. That's not acting. Way to pay attention, you were *clearly* at the top of your class. I guess you didn't have to dance because the government was paying for your education, the way they pay for the short bus you rode in high school?
"The queer community does not need to adhere to the straight community. It can stand on its own 2 feet and carve its won path. But clearly you don't believe in that since 1. you want the lookist, ageist, weightist, racist ideals of the queer community to prevail and continue and 2. you don't believe in carving your won path since you retreated to this blog for your hags to defend you."
Yes, I suppose we could carve our own path. But we still wouldn't have equal rights, since the straight community controls the country we live in. So unless you're suggesting we go to war, conquer some land, and declare a "queer nation", yes, we need acceptance and perhaps even approval by the straight community. If that's your answer...well, I'm sorry I asked. I needed the brain cells you just killed.
You really don't understand the whole "I gave you my e-mail address" thing, do you? You might try reading.
"Yup sean the himbo's (himbo is a male bimbo) music is crap. Listening to it on his myspace is like listening to a bad American Idol audition. His music is as ghastly as his blonde hair with roots showing and his orange, spray tan."
I always just called male bimbos "bimbos". It, you know, should be evident from looking at them. And now you're backpedaling from the backpedaling, where you said his voice sucked. Do you have skitzophrenia, or do you just really want your insurance to cover the group therapy I suggested?
"hee hee. so first you elicit their defenses through what you wrote. and then they come to your defense, but you claim they didn't. you've got the manipulative gogo boy role down, so you can use it in your auditions for a part. hey if it doesn't work out, there's always the casting couch. and we all know what happens there. it's not who you know, it's who you blow right? :)"
I didn't elicit their responses. I explained why you would be posting comments that border (and frequently cross) the line into the realm of flaming. And why I would be replying.
And once again, if I needed their help would I have given you my e-mail address? Honestly, you are the single most devoid of common sense adult I have ever encountered, and believe me when I tell you that says a lot. You might even be stupider than Dubya.
And, hey, maybe you can try that blowing trick to make something of yourself (other than a pest, of course, you can do that on your own.) Some of us don't need to.
"That is what talentless "actors" rely on. When they're old and washed up, it's time to go under the knife. Not naming names here."
I know what you mean, why do you think Jim Carey has such a Botox smile. Seriously, if he didn't have such a long tongue and such bizarre facial expressions he'd never have gotten a job to begin with.
"Well you would know about pulling tricks. But no, this whole debate began with the fact that the gay community upholds these oppresive notions of beauty. The gay community is racist, lookist, weightist and ageist. And I am going to speak against this!"
Go right ahead, but do it in a public forum not a personal one. The rest of us are going to be busy trying to get equal rights in the rest of the world.
"We could have done it in your blog if you had the balls to have one."
"See, the thing is, I did have respect for you up until this point. You were a man with a mission, out to change the world for the better."
This debate has spiralled way out of control, and an apology from myself to you is in order. My intentions were to bring change to the queer community which is why I began commenting on alexsander's blog. But it's really a lost cause. The queer community won't change, and even if it does/has, the increments are little. There is no point in putting up my own blog then since clearly I'm in the minority for change in the queer community. Anyway, it's time to end this debate and end this campaign for change since it won't happen.
shayera
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